The search for a dog, and the “burden of choice”
“It was hardly a casual thing, picking a pup. Here was a creature with whom I would share the next fifth of my life: a housemate, family member, hunting partner, friend. One does not pick children. One is given them. But with dogs one assumes the burden of choice.” - Charles Fergus.
By KW
The burden of choice.
Most of us who frequent this switchgrass ridge of ideas on the Journal’s Web site have at one time or another assumed the burden of choice that author Charles Fergus writes about in the opening pages of his wonderful book, “A Rough-Shooting Dog.”
For Fergus, in this instance, the choice was a female springer spaniel named Jenny. And the book follows the growth - in physical and spiritual ways - of a hunting dog and the man who chose her.
After most of a decade without a hunting dog, I’m edging my way back toward that meaningful burden of selection. Not surprisingly, I’m focusing on springer spaniels, the dogs that served me well during the years when ring-necked pheasant hunting was my unsurpassed outdoor addiction.
I lived in Sioux Falls and Pierre during those years, and had my springers on rooster scent two to four days week during the pheasant season. It’s different out here, farther from ringneck country, and now there’s this fly fishing obsession to deal with.
But I miss those birdy days.
Dogless and without a nose that matters in the field, I rarely hunt upland birds anymore. And I long for that autumn ritual enough that I’m thinking, again, about assuming the substantial burden and costs of finding, buying, “fixing,” training and caring for a hunting dog.
With me, the search starts with springers. And, most likely, that’s where the search will end. But German wirehairs keep nosing their way into my consideration as well.
What the heck is a guy to do?
Well, Bill Dithmer suggests in a comment down below that we should have another dog discussion. (Really, can you have too many of those?) Which kind is your favorite? Why? What are you hunting with these days?
I know Bill’s ready to talk dogs. And if the discussion gets good, we might even coax a former regular and widely-regarded Caucasian Labrador herder, Lee Schoenbeck, back onto the scene.
To get things started, let me settle one issue: The best pheasant breed on earth?
Springer spaniel, hands down.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:35 am
OK I’ll start the debate with recollections about criticisms, past received, about Black Farm Dogs and water mutts not fit or qualified to follow the likes of a good german short hair through the cattails on the edge of a marsh.
Most have concluded by now that I can’t live without a Black Labrador in my life and while I must admit that I’ve thought of other breeds from time to time, and heaven forbid, even considered the color yellow once, my life long allegiance remains with the breed whose dispostion, intense desire to please, faithfulness and just plain love for the human family is unparralleled in my opinion. I would also admit that if a person spends as much time as is required, devotes as much energy and resources as is necessary to train a dog, it really doesn’t matter what breed is best. They all learn and adapt and will do things that defy explanation but they won’t do those things if a person doesn’t spend as much time with them as they would the rest of their friends or family. I love the Lab because they are about as close to universal as any breed there is and they can be trained to do just about any job from sniffing out dope to running rocky hillsides in search of chukar. To me, they seem to be about the easiest of breeds to train and as previously mentioned, there is seldom a concern about any of them being disagreeable or aggressive with people and particularly children. I have yet to have one not become a “family member” in a very short period of time and adopt “manners” around the house that other dogs just don’t seem to learn without a great deal of work and attention.
The only down side I have found with the labrador is that they don’t seem to make a very good watch dog. My wife and I have both thought for years that if an intruder broke into our house, the dog would likely give him a big ole lick in the face rather than threaten to bite. The other down side is the breed might like chasing things that they have no business chasing - like deer or rabbits- but then that can be corrected in relatively short order with training.
John: It’s hard to argue against Labs in all-around abilities and a good-natured approach to life. MY best pal pooch was a black Lab. He was a great friend, and a mediocre hunting dog - which was my fault more than his. K.W.
October 24th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
KW its hard to beat a spaniel of any breed for bird hunting. I think that John has brought up an interesting reason for that. Anyone that hunts a spaniel or any dog with long hair for that matter spends way more time with their dogs then other hunters do. In the 90s I used to host six hunters from Ohio that came out every year for bird season. No it was never Pay To Hunt, but the fact that I loved to hunt with different breeds of dogs. These six people would show up with between eight and ten dogs every year. Sometimes there would be five different breeds of bird dogs kenneled here at one time. I preached and preached to these people that they should be working one or at the most two dogs trying to finish one into a decent hunting dog. It was at this time that I started to learn something about spaniels. After every hunt there was a lot of time getting sand burs and other things out of their hair. Those dogs loved that time as much as they loved working birds. As with all good hunting dogs,no matter what the breed, the more time you spend with them the better hunting dog you’ll have. Setters are a little that way to except they tend to be a little higher off the ground and take less time to clean up. Now the pointers were kenneled as soon as we would get through hunting. We would set out front of my kennels working on the long haired dogs while the big dogs watched. This naturally created some jealousy in the bird dog pack. John, its not the black labs fault that he was only a fair hunter. It was a gene that was bred for. That same gene made the dog steady to the shot, easy to handle, and gave him the ability to track a falling bird with his eyes and still not give chase until released by his master. For years lab breeders would put down any dog that would freelance,or quarter in front of a hunter feeling that they were loosing something in the breed. Today we have a lab breed that is almost split as far as genetics go. One side of the family tree is dominated by the old retriever. Same old traits, same trusted duck dog. While the other side of the family are referred to as the pointing lab. I have never had the chance to hunt with this breed but I think I would like it a lot. Easy to train, short range hunter, good retriever, and great to be around. Kinda sounds like a spaniel with long legs and short hair doesn’t it? One more thing and then its home made beef pot pie time. I can tell you what my favorite breed of dog is. My Uncle Cars had a saying whenever someone would ask what kind of dog he liked to hunt. “I like a german shorthair that has had at least 8 years of hard hunting in back of him. I want that dog to have just a touch of arthritis to slow him down some. And I want him to be a little fat and just enough out of shape that he can only hunt one hour opening morning and one hour in the afternoon. “If you know any of the pointer breeds I think you understand what my uncle was saying.
Bill: What a thoughtful essay on bird dogs. Thanks. And, yes, springers are bur magnets. Even if you shave them before the season, which I did, they were grown out and back to collecting stickers by mid-October. The dogs pull a lot themselves. But they can’t reach everywhere. And, as you say, the removal process has its benefits, to dog and hunter. K.W.
October 24th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
I am told that over across the water, the herders who use Border Collies to work the sheep and supposedly cattle, also used them for hunting. They are undoubtedly the smartest dogs in the world, hands down. I have often wondered about training one for hunting, but never having been around any dogs who you would use for hunting I have no idea what is good or how to go about training one. Anyone on here ever tried it or been around any?
I will be getting a Bearded Collie pup in the near future. Perhaps he/she could be trained for this?
October 24th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Great insight on bird dogs from John & Bill. I’ve spent some time with labs, retrievers, pointers, and spaniels with some great moments behind each. I’ve also cused & fussed when some of them headed for the lower forty chasin’ rabbits, deer, etc. All the breeds mentioned can be quite good. Some mixed breeds have proven themselves as great bird dogs with all the skills & instincts of the bluebloods. I’m not a dog expert — but it seems that proper training and time spent with a promising pup tend to overcome some heritage issues.
My retriever, Bart, doesn’t really qualify as a purebred bird dog. But he is very, very enthusiastic and learns quickly. He wants to please and listens carefully to my guidance & encouragement. Bart has a great nose and really “works” the birds but hasn’t quite mastered the art of “pointing”. But he stays within range and doesn’t run wild after critters. Bart has a soft mouth and has learned to place the birds at my feet. He lets me pick the burs out of his feet but squirms too much when I try to brush his coat. He thinks it tickles! Bart makes a great huntin’ partner but he shore ‘nuf eats a lot and his breath would knock a buzzard off of a ………………………!
Keep your powder dry and your T.P. handy,
October 24th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
RD I don’t know a darn thing about bearded collies but I do think you have hit on what could be an interesting experiment. I have seen border collies hunt coon, tree cats, catch hogs, herd cattle, sheep, chickens, ducks, and geese. Now imagine if you will taking someone that is immobile, like in a wheel chair out to a food plot. You are there with your trusty border collie and instead of trying to suppress his herding instinct you give him the “out and around” signal. He could be taught to go on the outside of the food plot to the end and start back towards you and the handicapped hunter herding the birds as he came to you. These dogs are smart. I don’t think it would take much to make a believer out of me. It would still be hunting for the hunter, just in a different way. And the dog would be doing what comes naturally.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Bear Paw it sounds like we think alike when it comes to working dogs. You know that cussing you talked about when the dogs run off chasing off game. Well I got tired of that about thirty years ago and bought my first TriTronics collar. That one would reach out there a good hundred yards. I have had several others over the years and they keep getting better all the time. I have two right now, one is called the Judge. That sucker will reach out there more then a mile on flat ground. That’s far enough for anyone. The other one is a lot smaller then the Judge and only reaches about a half mile, but you have lot of chooses in beeps and electrical stimulation.WOW I love that little collar. While Im on this subject we might as well get this out of the way. A shocking collar is a great training device, but a dogs mind is a terrible thing to waste. There are certain things everyone should know before they are allowed to use a shocking collar. Its a lot like You Might Be A Red Neck.
You shouldn’t be allowed to use a shocking collar if
1. You cant handle a two year old child
2. You yell at your wife for no good reason
3. You get road rage before you leave the driveway
4. You get mad at ball games
5. You think its always someone else’s fault
6. And finally, if your dog is smarter then you are.
There have been more dogs ruined by an itchy finger and a bad temper than have ever been fixed by the same.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Just spent two days hunting with my Labs, Kajun and Kenai. Just me and no other hunters around. They are just so darn versatile. I keep them in the truck when I sneak to jump ducks. Drop one or two across the stream in the cattails or weeds. Get the dogs and send them on a few blind retrieves. Labs are good at that. Then walked some weed patches for roosters. They both went on point. Each had there own bird. I, of course, did not believe there were two birds and only made the shot on one. You can tell when a lab is birdy just by the change in tail speed. I just can not imagine owning a dog that can not retrieve a dove to a 12 pound goose, swim icy water or pound thick cover, point a rooster when he holds and stay with him when he does not. They do not collect burs and if they do, they pull em out with our missing a beat. They are devoted in their passion just like me.
If I could not hunt with my labs….I would not hunt
LABS the only way to go
Jeff
October 25th, 2009 at 6:40 am
rdennis: I have a border collie who is an unbelievable squirrel/rabbit hunter. She will also scent trail pheasant and grouse like nobodies business. The only thing she doesn’t like is getting wet but she will stand on the shore when she scents/sees a downed duck. She has me pretty well trained for water retrieves, thus making her quite a bit smarter than I.
October 25th, 2009 at 10:43 am
I must agree with Jeff O and JW, I love labs. JW also is correct in saying any dog can be great with the proper training. But, I also think a lab’s versatility is unsurpassed. I would recommend, however, that when selecting a lab, try to find one who’s parents are not so big. Medium sized labs are better than large, or small labs. My lab is about 95 pounds (not at all fat) and that is quite big. He is 7 and starting to get problematic joint problems and the such. I think a smaller (60 or so pounds) lab is ideal. Big dogs in general require lots of space, big kennels, lots of food, and so on. I sill wouldn’t trade mine, but I’ll considered size next time.
October 25th, 2009 at 11:33 am
It’s a tough question, as to which breed is the best to chose, and as Bear Paws suggests, the pedigree isn’t everything. Our farm dogs, which were mostly mixed breed, always stood up pretty well in the field against some high dollar pedigreed dogs that some hunters would bring. Probably the best of our farm dogs was a border collie, which was the easiest to train, and had a soft mouth from the onset. One year I hunted with a guy who had a Poodle. This brought a round of laughter and snide remarks when he brought him out, but we were soon silenced by this dog’s skills in the field.
Last spring, I lost the best friend I have ever had. A Springer named Jake. He was 13 years of age, which is considered a good life, but I wasn’t ready to give him up. I almost feel guilty about cussing about the after hunt hours of pullling burrs, or that he thought I was the only one capable of carrying birds, and would bring eveyone elses downed birds to me. What I wouldn’t trade to have just one more hunt with him. If it was just about hunting, there are are many excellent choices, but as an all around good buddy and hunting partner combined, I am mighty partial to a Springer. Especially one named Jake.
October 25th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Thanks for thew responses guys. I might have to do some studying up on this hunting with dogs deal!
And Bill you are so right about the collars. Used right I think they are a great tool. Used wrong and the person pushing the buttons is the tool!
Why is it legal to use a dog for bird hunting, but not for big game? If there was a way to use dogs effectively for big game hunting?
October 25th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
It looks to me like the labs and the springers are winning the popularity contest. I don’t know if there is anyone on here that wants to answer this question but I have to ask it anyway. Do you think raising dogs for the show ring , conformation only, has made it harder to find quality hunting dogs in some breeds that used to be popular? I personally think that is the case . You used to see a lot of setters going down the road every year. I haven’t hunted with a good Irish for over twenty five years, and I haven’t seen one in the field for ten. The same could be said for a lot of old time bird dog breeds. Im just wondering if style has replaced function in a lot of dogs bred today.
Bill: I think you’re right. Breeding for looks has hurt some breeds that previously were bred for performance and behavior traits. I think the cocker spaniel is another example. It was once a hunting dog pretty comparable to the springer. Now the breed has lots of looks and not so much hunt. K.W.
October 25th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
I don’t want to push heavy on the lab breed because I’ve been around too many other breeds that did very special things too but I have to mention a very small black labrador retriever that had a heart bigger than South Dakota. One of my bestest friends in the entire world owned a very diminuitive labrador, the size of which I had not seen nor have seen since. KOTA only weighed about 45 pounds when she was full grown at age 5-6 and she and Bob could be found in every type of field from sitting on a bucket hunting doves on the edge of a dam to swimming the heavy water of the Missouri River after a crippled Canada. KOTA was of typical labrador dispostion and would come over to anyone sitting on the couch and just lay her head in your lap and sigh a bit. You could not help but scratch her ears. She had the most remarkable talent of retrieving rocks out of the water that started early in her life when Bob forgot to bring training dummies along on a hot summer day to let her swim in the river. He picked up a rock about the size of a baseball and tossed it into the water a few feet from shore to tease the dog into jumping into the water and cool off. To Bob’s complete surprise, KOTA swam to the spot where the rock submerged, disappeared under water and came up with the “exact” rock Bob tossed in. The next try with a different rock resulted in the same precise retrieve. I had to think that it was really hard on the dogs teeth but as long as the rock didn’t come to rest on the bottom in deep water, the same rock as was tossed in would be retrieved back to shore with enthusiasm to “throw it again dad.” I watched that dog swim the entire width of the river below Oahe on a very cold, windy day in January after a crippled goose and after several tries, recovered the goose under water after it had dived under water, and returned to our side of the river- albeit that it was about 150 yards down stream due to the current. I’ve never witnessed such stamina and determination. I got soaking wet giving that dog a hug because it was a goose I crippled. KOTA left us about 10 years ago but I really do hope that when I reach the golden gates, St.Peter will reunite me with KOTA, Casey, Abbey, Dinah, Chava and all the rest of my four and two legged friends and family members I’ve grown to love immensely over the years.
October 25th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
I have been lucky enough to have be blessed by owning two labs, one chocolate and one yellow. By far and away they are members of my family, as other lab owners have also mentioned. The yellow weighs 65 pounds and is built like a tank, also moves through thick brush like a tank as well. The chocolate weighs 50 pounds and is the most intelligent dog I’ve ever been around. Didn’t know that labs would make good cow dogs but the chocolate can push cows up a chute just as good as a heeler.
When I was in the market for a dog 6 years ago I did my research on bloodlines and visited different breeders before I chose a puppy. I think with any breed doing your research can make a first time dog trainer look like and old pro as I was not sure what I was doing when I started but have been complimented many times on both dogs and how they handle. A big Thanks to natural instinct there.
To add to rdennis’ comment on border collies, I think it wouldn’t be to hard to get one to circle and would sure be fun to try in the instance above. Might make an interesting conversation piece in the pheasant belt of SD
October 25th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
I do know that the working Border Collie people fought tooth and nail to keep the AKC from having Border Collies in their association as they breed for looks instead of ability. There is really no “normal” to working Border Collies. They come in many shapes sizes and colors, tho’ the black and white is predominate.
Look how the AKC has ruined many other working blood lines. Such as the German Shepard. Many people don’t l know that at one time they were a great stock dog. Now you have to get them checked for hip problems.
Mankind has ruined many species by trying to “improve” them!
If some had their druthers, we would have Whitetail the size and with a similar rack to elk!
October 26th, 2009 at 12:18 am
Bill: Thanks for the info on collars. I hear they work pretty good — but I’m hooked on low tech methods. Ole Bart is a gentle soul, but I don’t have the cojones to put a shock into that boy. He doesn’t know his own strength and his claws haven’t been trimmed. I’ll be happy just to keep him as a great partner who has some limitations as a retriever.
Norm: Plan a special hunt to your favorite places — with your best friend, Jake, along in spirit. Take his picture along. Talk with him. It might well help heal the loss you feel.
My Dad suddenly passed away before I could journey home for our long delayed and long planned pheasant hunt. I felt compelled to return for the promised hunt anyway. It really seemed like an important commitment — not just a chance for fun. With a nephew on each side of me and Dad looking on in spirit — we had the hunt of a lifetime. It even surpassed the great hunting of the 1950’s. It was very emotional and I swear I felt my Dad’s presence. It was truly magical!
I suspect very few of the TIO crowd would criticize you for mourning Jake and most would probably offer a knowing nod of understanding.
We honor our loved ones by keeping their memories alive. It’s OK to talk to them.
(Note: I didn’t always roam the mountains & run traplines.)
Keep your powder dry, your knives sharp, your T.P. handy and your dogs close!
October 26th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Now that’s what I’m talking about, real stories from real hunters. Believe it or not that’s what hunting used to be like around here. Back in the sixties during the heyday of the ring neck life was lived a lot differently then it is today. On this place everything that couldn’t be put off in the fall had to be done before hunting season. September and the first part of October were busy around here, planting wheat, hauling hey, working cattle, and getting fall fencing done. They knew about the middle of October all hell was going to bust loose and not to be a part of it wasn’t even an option. When bird season finially did start choors were adjusted so everything could be done in the morning. The only thing that had to be done at night was milk cows and that was done almost every night after it got dark until the end of deer season. I don’t know if its that way or not today but back then the airbase was a hotbed of outdoor enthusiast. We had a lot of airmen that we got to know quite well over the years that came down and hunted birds. One of these men was here a lot more then any of the others. After the first time here it was never “can I hunt” it was always “lets go hunting”. This man had the most beautiful Irish setter that I had ever seen, and was the first dog I ever shot a bird over. He had been professionally trained by the airman’s brother who was in that business. One day this man showed up at the ranch and told my Uncle Cars that he had been transferred and couldn’t take the setter with him.We went hunting and when we got home that night the man handed the leash to my uncle and said he is yours now Cars. Until that time I had never seen a grown man cry for any reason. This dogs name was Mike. He did absolutely every thing you could ask a bird dog to do, including retrieve ducks in cold water something I am sure shortened his hunting life by a few years. In his prime I remember my uncle hunting him 28 days straight. What started out first day as a sixty five lb dog was then down to a fifty lb red missile. There used to be an organized hunt that the legion put on for the needy. There might be as many as twenty hunters together at one time, and there would be several bunches of hunters like this throughout the country. On one of these hunts Mike was the only dog there and made over sixty retrieves. Not only for our bunch, but for others close by that had crippled birds they couldn’t find. Mike lived to be almost 13 years old and we retired him at 11. His eyes were cloudy, he couldn’t hear, and the cold water had taken it toll on his bones. One afternoon we were hunting with friends that had two young English pointers, the first I had ever seen, and we lost two birds. It didn’t matter what we did we just couldn’t find the birds. One thing Uncle Cars hated about as much as a crippled deer was loosening a crippled pheasant. We were close to the house hunting so we went home and got by that time old Mike. My uncle lifted him into the back of the pickup and when we got to the field he lifted him out. When he hit the ground it was like seven years has melted away from his old body. For the next twenty minutes he put on a show. The first bird was easy, twenty yards in five minutes covering ground that the other two dogs had been on a hundred times already. Then he lined out, went out of the field on the far end and crossed the creek caught a still hard running rooster and came back and handed the bird to Uncle Cars. Sometimes a pat on the head or a soft pull on a long ear is all the communication that’s needed between a man and his old friend. And sometimes words could never say enough.
October 26th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
Darn it Bill, that story sure must be windy as it blew some dirt in my eye evidently.
Great stuff guys! Great stuff!
October 26th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Labs, heck I had an Airedale that made those blonde beauties look like they were standing still when it came to bird hunting. How is that for stirring the pot. Sorry, but it is true - my friend had two labs and the Airedale would out hunt them all the time. I believe it is what you do with a dog and how you bond with them that really matters.
October 27th, 2009 at 1:24 am
Tonight I was reminded of another reason why Ole Bart is special to me. Mrs. Bear Paw made me leave Bart behind as we went deer hunting where he might not be appreciated. When we returned, Bart quickly forgave me and spent the evening snuggling with me and wanting to know all the details of our big adventure. It’s great to feel so loved. What a great companion!
We enjoyed our day together, saw lots of beautiful country, and found enough deer for us. (No more Cold Track Soup.) Best wishes!
Bear: Maybe Mr. Bear Paw could send us a reporter on your hunting trip? Including a review on how Mr. Bear Paw did? K.W.
October 27th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
I’m afraid hunting purists might be bored with the details of our hunting trip. There were no Boone & Crockett or Pope & Young trophies for us this year. In fact, this year I had a doe tag and selected a nice size doe from a group of seven that posed for us. This was a meat hunt that will allow us to continue our long tradition of sharing some venison with friends & extended family. We plan to go back soon and see if my wife can bust a buck.
My wife and I had another great day together enjoying God’s creations. The table was set for us: incredible mountains & canyons, beautiful lakes & streams, and lots of trees. Most areas didn’t have the usual prime fall colors but there was still lots of beauty to embrace. We picked some wild mushrooms and collected a variety of interesting stones that our grandsons will enjoy. We picked a few apples from an ancient orchard at a really old abandoned homestead far from any roads. We picked a gorgeous location and enjoyed a special lunch together. Note: My missus always packs a good selection of fruit — she knows it is what I need to keep me going at high altitudes. She is a great huntin’ partner!
Ole Bear Paw has a long history of hunting adventures in remote areas (often wilderness) with world class beauty and plenty of critters. We’ve harvested respectable bucks and quartered & packed out big elk that tested our endurance. We’ve stalked tropy elk on snowshoes with a longbow. My retriever, Bart has convinced me not to shoot any of the bears around here. The moose are a bit limited around here — so we leave them alone. There are lots of wolves now so I guess I’ll be lookin’ for some good recipes.
With my close companion, Arthur-itis, in recent years we’ve been movin’ slower and adjustin’ to our limitations. Four years ago, I thought serioously about staying on the mountain long enough to cook & eat my elk. That one was sure tough to field dress, quarter, and pack out! I was also busy rescuing an old partner who was sufferin’ from exposure to the winter storm. (No heroism there — just reality.)
I’m still recoverin’ from a visit to one of those new-fangled surgeon fellas. He cut me deep, wide, & often. I move slower now and make sure I have my walkin’ stick in hand.
I am back climbin’ some tough mountains again, but I have a hard time doin’ it on consecutive days. I updated my old travois to an old Dodge model that my wife and I really enjoy. I’m doin’ better but I need to get my muscle tone back. Next year, I plan to resume my big adventure pursuing elk in the high country. There is nothin’ like it!
May you all be blessed with great huntin’ partners. They are so important — whether or not you get any game. Happy huntin’!!
Bear Paw: Good stuff. Thanks. K.W.
October 27th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Purist indeed! Bear Paw most of us will never be able to show the respect of the world around us like you did in your last post. The most we can hope for in our witting is pale in comparison to what you have written.
Thanks man. Live large!
October 28th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Show Dog/Hunting Dog issue that was raised. The show people basically ruined the Irish Setter as a hunting dog in this country years ago. Hunters in the SE liked the breed and they bred them back. I believe there is a difference between Springers also, but it seems there are a lot of hunting ones around. Not real sure on this, but I believe you can breed back to pure blood in 3 generations. In other words breed an Irish Setter or with an English Setter or whatever and then breed the offspring for 3 generations with an Irish and you are back to recogized pure blood.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Aw shucks! The respect is quite genuine. My writing can never match the incredible beauty offered by our Creator. We need to take the time to enjoy our journey — not just our destination. I find it a great personal tonic to go explorin’ with an inexperienced friend — young or old, who enjoys learnin’ about nature’s bounty. Seeing the world through a child’s eyes keeps me from getting too jaded. It can be simple things like: discussin’ types of trees, plants, birds & critters; pickin’ out a good walkin’ stick; examinin’ critter tracks; rollin’ over a log to discover its’ secrets, pickin’ thru stones for imagined treasures; discussin’ cloud formations and animal behavior. Whatever the topic, I know it is important for us to listen to them and ask their opinion. They need a guide & teacher who encourages them — not just an old bossy, know-it-all. Oops, it’s time to climb down from my soapbox! I guess I really strayed from the intent of KW’s post.
P.S. I am really encouraged when I see photos & read about young folks huntin’, fishin’, & learnin’ about nature. It builds character that will serve us all well in the future!
BIll: Thanks for the feedback. Recent posts from you & John W. far surpass my humble writin’ skills. I just appreciate nature’s beauty and try to emphasize content rather than just flowery words. I have long been inspired by the very imaginative writing of a certain Lyman County native. Shh! The Old Dove Slayer will get a big head.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
I have seen them all try - but for South Dakota hunting - with our diverse terrain and weather and opportunities - a lab is the only thing that will preform universally. You never have to buy the cute clothes and booties for a lab. they flush, retireve, and sort of point (but who needs that). Buy a lab and I’ll show the book on training that makes it easy.
Heeeeeeee’s baaaaaack! K.W.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Sorry Lee, labs aren’t the ONLY dog for SD. I’ll put a Draahthaar up against any lab anyday and I bet KW will go with the Springer!!
DES: I’d definitely put a well-bred, well-trained springer up against a well-bred, well-trained Lab any day on pheasants, and figure the springer would produce more dead birds. Waterfowl? It’s the Lab, hands down. I just love to watch springers hunt cover, in that frenetic, bounding, relentless style that inspired Twin Cities outdoor writer Steve Grooms - a former springer man who went to English setters - to call them “merry savages.” They are that, and more. But they’re not as versatile as Labs. Based on what I’ve read and heard, Draahthars seem more versatile than springers. But can they match a Lab? K.W.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
KW: You only play dead duck a few times a year compared to chasing pheasants. I just may give the labs a little on water retrieving geese as they are mostly bigger bodied than Draahthaars, but if you really want that kind of a water dog you can find some large bodied Draahthaars.
DES: You’re right. When I get back in the dog game, my hunting will be 80 or 90 percent ringneck. And not the ducks. K.W.
October 29th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Just so everybody doesn’t get the wrong idea of what breed of dog I would hunt if given the choise of just one bird dog. Simple German shorthair pointer. I have been lucky enough to see these dogs on everything from doves to geese in the bird world. And if you are talking about four legged animals I have hunted everything from mice to bears with the breed. I don’t know of another breed that has the winding ability to find either bird scent or that of a furbearing animal like this dog does. They can strike scent from a moving vehicle at forty mph, something other breeds can only do in their imagination. Tough enough to fight coon every night, and yet demand to go the next day when its pheasants that you are after. There are a lot of breeds that can do one thing great and some other things fair. GSPs can for the most part get it done wherever they are set down. Part of my allegiance to the breed lies in the common ancestor with my Plott hounds, the great old German breed of Hanoverian dogs. And part of my love of the breed comes from personal experience with four during my lifetime. We coon hunted all of these dogs with no back up in them and no quit. We bird hunted the same dogs and as far as I know never crushed a bird. Well there you have it. Are GSPs hard headed? Yup. Are they hard to train? For me they are.I have never personally finnished a shorthair in my life but have been lucky enough to be around people that could. Do they do things that make you mad, I have never been any more mad at a dog then at GSP. But when conditions are dry, and birds are hard to find, these are the dogs I want in front of me.
Bill: You touch on my quandary: Do I go with a dog I know and trust, one that’s easy to handle and train and so full of “hunt” that all it takes is a little time, love and consistent obedience training and time afield to shape it into an effective bird dog? (Springer spaniel) Or do I try something new and intriguing, but also unsettling because it’s a more complicated training venture that would be entirely new ground for me, with a dog that people have virtually without exception said is a wonderful hunter but also a bit hard-headed and more aggressive (German wirehair). What’s a guy to do? K.W.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:00 am
kw:
One of my long time constituents had several Drahthaars over the years and he had to put at least one of them down and sell another one or two due to issues with their disposition. I think MM may still have Drahthaars but don’t know for sure. All of his dogs came directly from European blood lines. According to the experts, there is a distinct difference between the German Drahthaar and a Wirehair Pointing Griffon.
The large male dog he had actually bit a young child, purportedly without provocation, and unfortunately, the decision was made to put the dog down just because of that incident. Otherwise, the dog was an excellent hunter and performed well in the water even though the breed wasn’t bred for water work. If memory serves, the female was a bit more difficult to control and train. I’ve watched the dogs work an they remind me a lot of the high energy pointing breeds that range long and wide, are tireless, bust cover like a bull dozer, but are a bit difficult to train. At least two of the dogs my friend had, had to be force fetched and I’ve never liked or enjoyed that process.
John:Thanks. I’ve heard such stories before. K.W.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
A little info on Draahthaars: The breed was developed by mixing the Pointing Griffon (where they get their hair style), the German Shorthair, Pointing Pudel, probably English Setter, and maybe Bloodhounds. Some say there are some other breeds mixed in. The Germans wanted a more versatile dog since in Germany if you have so many hectares of land for hunting, you are required to have a schweisshund (sp)(blood dog) available for deer, etc., plus birds, hares, boar and whatever. The vast majority of State/Federal Forsters whose land that I hunted on kept Draahthaars. Hunting dogs in Germany ARE hunting dogs. You will never see them around children, etc. They are hard headed and can be mean AND that is why you look for an American breeder that has worked on getting those traits out of his/her stock.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
KW Just from looking at all the comments on here I can see where a person could come away more confused then they were before the first post. I sure don’t know it all but maybe I can help you out a little. First off lets get one thing straight, I am not a bird dog man. My business for thirty years has been the breeding,training, and selling of coon and cat dogs. My passion has been understanding the genetic background of the two breeds that I have raised. The beauty of all this is that genetics works the same whether it is a pea, an angus cow, or a dog. If you are going to get a new hunting dog do some research. I know this will be hard to do but don’t just settle on a breed because you have liked it in the past, or so and so has a pretty good one. Talk to other hunters about the breeders that they know and about those breeders operations. Then talk to the breeders themselves, if not in person on the phone. Remember this is a living thing that your looking for. You might be together for ten years or longer if your lucky. Now I’m going to say something that I am sure to catch some grief over. The dog you are looking for can be found in every one of the above mentioned breeds.Its just a matter of finding the right bloodline, or combination of bloodlines that will produce the traits that you are looking for in your hunting companion. Now let me give everyone a short list of things that might relieve some of the stress when you are looking for your next dog.
1.Price has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of a dog. For some its what they think their dogs are worth, watch out for this kind. If the first thing out of their mouth is we want x amount for our pups, you are in the wrong place.
2.If a breeder wants to take you hunting with the parents of the pups, pay attention, you might be in for a great experience. You can learn more in an afternoon of hunting from the dogs and the person that bred them then you could in a whole set of books about the breed. You can predetermine gushiness.And how they interact with people, both strangers and their masters. How they handle and work the field, both range and speed.Never buy a dog if you cant hunt with one or both of the parents.
3. You know you are in good company if the breeder wants to show you the pups grandpa or grandma or both in action, very few people will keep three generations of junk dogs it just plain cost to much. To show those dogs doing what they were bred for should mean something.
4.Be careful of people that have the Muhammad Ali complex. My dogs are the greatest. They might be but all the work of shoveling a couple of foot of crap to find out just isn’t worth it.
5. If a breeder talks about really liking someone else’s dogs. I want to breed to old Jake I think it would fit in nice with my line of dogs. Or, I sure would like to get a pup out of Bess I hunted her mom and she was the best. It shows they are trying to improve what they have by breeding outside their own kennel.
6. And finialy. don’t be afraid to play with the litter of pups. While most breeders will take care of over aggressive pups when they start eating puppy food, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be bold. You want a pup that responds to YOUR VOICE some dogs wont! One more thing here, try the wing test. I have seen two month old pups lock up on point. Not all of them will but you can sure read tendencies at that age.
Ok that about does it for me. I only have one last thing to say. A genetic breeder only wants two things in life when it comes to dogs. He wants to maintain the genetic integrity of the breed. You know, what makes that breed that breed. And he wants to improve the breed through genetic dominance in one area while at the same time not short changing the dog in another area. Now that’s long winded!
Great advice, Bill. Thanks. K.W.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
I got the spelling of schweisshund right or good enough for English. The proper way would of been “schweisz”. The word means “sweat” in English. Auf Deutsche Jaegersprocke it means the animal is bleeding.
October 30th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Good advice from Bill. I started out on dogs as a 13 yr old in PA hunting coons with a good friend’s uncle. One of his dogs was a bloodhound and when he wanted to breed her there wasn’t a male around except for state cops and they wouldn’t stud a dog so he bred her with a bassett from a neighbor. I bought one of the pups for $35 dollars which was one whole winter of hauling ashes out of homes. My dog ended up being an oversized bassett, must of weighted close to 70 lbs, red, and the best darn rabbitt dog around. I spent many a year with that dog hunting rabbits enjoying every moment of it. He had one of the best dispositions and just enjoyed being around people. He lived outside in a dog pen, but when it got a little cold I would come home from school and Mom would have the dog in the house. Darn, that is some good memories. Treat the dog right and they will return the affection!
October 30th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Great advice Bill, whether dogs, horses or cattle, in my mind.
Kevin, you got to like the dog. You will spend more time not hunting with it than you will hunting, I’
d bet. so it better be a dog you will like and like you. Maybe even liked by and likes your wife!
rd: Exactly. And I like springers, a lot, both in the field and goofing around in the off season. K.W.
November 1st, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Draahthaars ! With all due respect, the only people that like hunting with Draahthaars, are those few people that own them — it’s kind of like hunting with a single shot, without the problems of breaking it to being compatible with a group hunt. The only thing worse than hearing somebody is bringing a Draahthaar, is hearing some out of stater tell you is dog is a “field trial champion” — might as well point them in one direction - and go hunt in the other!
Heeeeeee’s waaaaaaay baaaaaaaaack! OK, Labrador herder, I’ve pretty much decided on a springer. Care to chime in on that? K.W.
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Sorry Lee, I’ve hunted with labs and they look like fat people on drugs compared to a Draahthaar in the field. Labs are good for playing dead duck with if that’s your game. Mine is finding birds and that is what a Draahthaar will do. In fact just about any dog will find birds better than a lab!!!
November 4th, 2009 at 8:25 am
DES you must find your meat in the aisle right after the bread
if you’re getting it with one of those things
November 4th, 2009 at 11:51 am
So… my old friend, it’s back to your roots as a bird hunter?
I couldn’t agree more with your choice. As you may recall, after Shazam I was on track to owning a springer until I spent a day with Boom’s old Ellie dog. So I ended up with the adorable Brittany Kate, and a wonderful 16 years it ended up being.
The only problem is that you may have already had the best dog you’ll ever own–despite her idiosyncrasies. Remember the day you ended up wet and cold from retrieving your own dummy from the Mo River?
Ken: Wow, talk about a blast from the past! Ken Moum, one of the great pheasant hunters ever to rush headlong after a speeding Brittany into the Missouri River breaks. It’ll be hard to beat Pogo, neurosis and all. That girl could kill pheasants. Her follow-up, Stormy, was very good. But not that good. Not nearly that neurotic, either. And, yes, I do remember retrieving my own dummy on the LaFramboise causeway, much to the entertainment of people passing by, and the springer sitting up on the shore. Do you remember when Zam the rocket-fueled Brittany kenneled up ON TOP of my pickup? Then when we finally got him inside the pickup topper, raced around in sort of a RoadRunner routine and finally stopped long enough to urinate on Pogo’s head? That dog was dangerous. But from everything I can recall, Kate was a dear. K.W.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Lee: I knew how and where to find the meat when you were still jumping from one nuss to the other!!
November 4th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Wow, can there ever be to many hunting dog stories? Nope. They can bring two old friends together for a shared memory. They can make young people dream, and old people feel young again. They can bring back old dogs that have been gone from this earth for years and replace sadness with a smile. Dogs do the darndest things. One year at the world hunt in Elnora Indiana a man and his son were looking at a big walker hound they were thinking about buying. There were probably a hundred people standing around watching the man selling the dog. The boy was petting the dog on the head when all of a sudden the big hound lifted his leg and peed almost up to the kids hip on one side. Without even missing a beat the walker man said ” that there dog really likes you”.I saw old men that had to lay down on the ground because they were laughing so hard. And what started out as a seven hundred dollar dog ended up a gift to a man and his son. And most important to me, stories keep the sport of hunting with dogs alive for the next generation. There is nothing, and I mean nothing like hearing a kid tell his friends a dog hunting story. It always starts the same way “me and dad were hunting” or “Old Red did the dangdest thing the other night hunting up by Norris.”For those of you who don’t know by now, I am a Dogman. And I never cry when Old Yeller dies, I fast forward.
Bill: Now that’s a great dog story. Thanks. K.W.
November 5th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Bill D:
As long as we’re delivering stories about dogs evacuating in or on unusual places; I remember promising to tell a story about the lab pup I bought from you in the spring of 77.
By the winter of 1980, Casey was over 3 years old and had developed the personality that he maintained for the remainder of his near 11 years of life. He rode with me in that dodge club cab power wagon nearly every where in Mellette and Jones Counties as well as practically every other county in SD.
One very warm late afternoon in January of 1980, I stopped into a landowners place south of Wood for a courtesy visit (actually my coffee meter was getting a bit low and Gary and Mary were good folks to learn about the community and what was going on in the neighborhood. I’m proud to still call them good friends after 35 years!) Casey was inside the cab when I parked in front of the house. Not knowing exactly how long I’d be in the house, I got the dog out of the truck and commanded him to “load” in the box of the truck which he did rather reluctantly. Casey was notorius for forgetting what he was told to do in short order so, understanding that, I stood directly in front of him, made sure I got his attention, shook my finger at the end of his nose and told him in no uncertain terms to “STAY”. I started to walk toward the house but turned around, walked back, shook my finger in his face again and told him once again in as stern a voice as I could; to “STAY’.
By that time, Gary had come to the door and beckoned me into the house so as I walked toward the door, I turned once again, shook my finger at the dog, curiously peering around the tool box, and said ; “you stay.” I went into the house and Mary poured coffee and I seem to recall chocolate cake was also served. The three of us visited for just over 1/2 hour and it began getting dark outside so I announced that I’d better hit the road since it was over an hour back to Murdo. We got up from the kitchen table and headed out the door with Gary in the lead. We had no sooner gotten outside when Gary erupted in hysterical laughter, bending nearly double and pointing at the green dodge truck parked in front of his house. The laughter increased in intensity and volume along with his animated pointing at the truck. He couldn’t even speak he was laughing so hard.
I couldn’t figure out what he was laughing so hard about or what he was pointing at but after a bit of confused “study” of the vehicle it became glaringly evident what Gary was howling about. There, on the top of the cab of the pickup, right next to the red revolving light, was an enormous pile of digested Purina Dog Chow. Casey was sitting on his haunches on the tool box acting very pleased with himself that he did exactly as he was told and stayed in the truck.
Gary loaned me a grain scoop to shovel off the “deposit” and then I drove over to the hydrant next to the barn and Gary squirted the remaining residue off with the hose.
I could still here him laughing when I hit the end of the driveway on the county road.
Whenever I see he and Mary, one of the other of them might bring it up with a grin that only good friends can muster.
John: Now that’s a a story. K.W.